Health Calls Season 6, Episode 3 features a conversation with author, speaker, and former chaplain John O’Leary, whose life story inspired the new film Soul on Fire. The episode highlights the unsung heroes of Catholic health care—nurses, CNAs, environmental services staff—whose compassion and presence helped John recover and thrive.
Health Calls Season 6, Episode 3 features a conversation with author, speaker, and former chaplain John O’Leary, whose life story inspired the new film Soul on Fire.
Host Brian Reardon and Executive Producer Josh Matejka speak with John about his journey from surviving a devastating childhood burn injury to becoming a voice for hope and healing. The episode highlights the unsung heroes of Catholic health care—nurses, CNAs, environmental services staff—whose compassion and presence helped John recover and thrive. Through reflections on faith, mission, and the dignity of every role in health care, John reminds listeners that true caregiving is rooted in love and purpose. His message is clear: every life is a precious gift, and every person has the power to make a difference.
Brian Reardon (00:04):
Greetings and welcome to Health Calls, the podcast of the Catholic Health Association of the United States. I'm your host, Brian Reardon. And with me as always is Josh Matejka. Hey, Josh.
Josh Matejka (00:14):
Hey, Brian. How's it going?
Brian Reardon (00:15):
Going great. So we are again doing a season on United for Change, and the topic for this episode is Igniting Souls and Making a Difference. We're having a conversation with John O'Leary and I'm going to introduce John formally in just a moment. So Josh, I'm going to turn to you first before I have a conversation with John. And really as we've done our episodes over the seasons, we've talked to physicians, we've talked to social workers, we've talked to mission leaders. John's a little bit of a different guest, and why do you think we should have had a, we're having this conversation with, give us a little background on the idea for this podcast.
Josh Matejka (00:52):
Yeah, well, I think John has been working with our partner here in Mercy in St. Louis for a while. Obviously his story incorporates Mercy quite a bit, and we'll get into that. But with the movie Soul on Fire coming out, we wanted to bring him on and be able to talk about his experience with Catholic Healthcare, the conversations he's having with people, because with the theme being United for Change, I think John's got a really unique perspective on that with all these different perspectives that he has been able to take in over the years. He can help us identify what are some of the common denominators that we have and that we can unite around. And I think bringing that type of voice in is really important for our listeners. And John's just a great guy and a good voice to have on the show.
John O'Leary (01:39):
He read that exactly like I wrote it. I just want the listeners and viewers to know you read that brilliantly, Josh.
Brian Reardon (01:44):
Yeah, good scripting. Well, let me introduce you again. For those who don't know, John O'Leary here and author, you are also a podcaster, so it's great to have another podcaster as a guest. I don't think we've ever, I think we've probably had some guests that have done podcasts, a motivational speaker, and you're the subject of this. Josh mentioned a new film, which is based on your book, Soul on Fire. Welcome to Health Calls. It's great to have you here.
John O'Leary (02:08):
I said what I said earlier to Josh jokingly, but this is truly an honor, so I'm grateful for the time and the attention.
Brian Reardon (02:14):
Yeah, we're honored to have you here. So let's start with the movie. It's coming out. I've seen it an amazing story. For those folks who don't know about the book and the movie, can you just give a it's your life story essentially?
John O'Leary (02:26):
Yeah, and it's the last thing in the world I would've expected. I'm an introvert, I struggled academically. I did the very best for the majority of my life to hide my scars and to disappear in so many regards within life. And at age 30 almost, I was in a church service and the priest said, for those of you who feel as if life has passed you by and you have no talents to be used, listen to me, your life is a precious, priceless gift. You got one job, now, say yes to being used for good. So this 30-year-old kid who went through a whole lot of struggle early in life hears that the following day I get invited by a girl scout to speak at her troop. And I'd never spoken anywhere Brian about anything. But on the heels of a pastor saying, say yes, to be used for good, I said yes.
(03:14):
And that single yes led to that first presentation and then a second one, and then a third and 2,700 speeches later, you and I are having this conversation. One of the outgrowths was a book. So about nine years ago I wrote on fire, and then in Las Vegas back in 2017, a woman came up and said, John, have you ever thought about turning your book into a movie? And I said, no. So she said, would you mind if I try and I learned as a kid, man, the answer is yes. So I said yes to this woman named Linda in Las Vegas, and over the last near decade, she, and now a group around her have turned that idea into a full feature film called Soul On Fire, all of that to say, none of this is my work, that this is what happens when you surrender your will and your life to something bigger than yourself.
Brian Reardon (04:04):
And I think what I took from the movie, again, excellent movie, highly recommended, was really it's the cast of folks around you. So as you were how old again when you suffered burns?
John O'Leary (04:15):
Yeah, so that's the backstory. At age nine, I was involved in a gasoline explosion burned on 100% of my body. And you don't need to be a burn specialist to recognize that's a difficult case to see in hospital.
Brian Reardon (04:29):
And you had zero chance of living. Essentially it is zero chance.
John O'Leary (04:32):
Even today it's just about zero. But back in 1987 when they rolled me into Mercy, there was zero chance. And one of the remarkable things about my care is va, my lead surgeon stood up and fought forward and led this group of leaders, caregivers around this little boy who seemingly earthly had a hopeless chance of survival, but had a little bit of faith, had fighting parents, and had a will to move forward in his own life.
Brian Reardon (05:02):
And being surrounded by your parents, the caregivers, and for those familiar with St. Louis Cardinals baseball, a guy by the name of Jack Buck. And that's just incredible that you had that sort of unifying support system in place. And what is that lesson I think you can take away from that? Obviously you had the will to fight and live, and the movie again portrays the young boy that portrays you younger in life, and then the actor that plays you later in life, both did an excellent job, but there are a lot of really wow moments in that movie of all you had to go through. So you had that will, but you, I'm guessing, could not have done that without the support cast you had around you. I'm glad you picked up on
John O'Leary (05:41):
I'm glad you picked up on that. My fear in all things that I do is that people will think I'm the hero. When you're a motivational speaker, you're at risk of portraying an image of your greatness. When you have a film done about your life, please that you're at risk of people looking up to you as if you're the example. And one of the things about my book early on, the first cover for the book On Fire had a picture of me wearing a suit with my arms crossed, looking out at the reader.
Brian Reardon (06:08):
I know that, yeah, cover, it's kind of a standard cover.
John O'Leary (06:11):
So I wrote 'em back and I'm like, guys, read the book. This is not me. So when they redid the jacket, the letters have, it's called Foil Wrap. And the idea is that the reader sees within themselves the call for to be a hero for someone else in their lives. So I'm not the hero. They're called to become a hero. When they did the poster, the first poster was of John O'Leary at Bush Stadium with his arms in the air looking at the future movie goers. So I wrote 'em back and said, guys, watch the movie. It's not about me. And so when they redid the poster, what you see now is a shadow of that guy, but look more closely. And it's all these images from the film, this mosaic of life, the nurses, the custodial staff, the doctors, the team, all the folks who stepped forward were the hands and feet of Christ. And in doing so, not only breathed life back into a patient, but changed his life forever.
Brian Reardon (07:02):
And there are a couple of folks in the movie that to me stood out. Obviously the nurse, you mentioned the physician, but the nurse you had, can you share with our listeners a little bit about that experience and how that again changed your life?
John O'Leary (07:19):
So Roy was a CNA and his primary job was to get me from the hospital bed into the bandage change to work over me for a couple hours, remove the bandages and get me back into my room. That's his job. But this man had learned early in his career the power of living our purpose and loving the one in front of him and encouraging them to see beyond the struggles they face today. So that mighty warrior man, Roy, I was talking to him yesterday. Roy would come into my room every day. I'm nine years old, I'm wrapped from head to toe like a mummy. I can't move, I never will. I know that about myself. I'm a victim to circumstances. And this big old guy would pull me out of the bed, get me on my feet, I could not bear weight back. Then drag me back toward the bandage change. And on the walk back he would say, boy, you're going to walk again. You might as well get used to it. Move those feet today, you walk and I'll walk with you. And Brian, the first time I heard him at age nine say that I hated him.
Brian Reardon (08:22):
I bet there's some obscene where you can tell you weren't happy about the whole. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah.
John O'Leary (08:28):
Yeah. That wasn't an exaggeration, man. It was true. Because the only thing worse than suffering is taking on additional suffering that you know is pointless.
(08:36):
If you know you're never going to walk again, ever if you know your life is over, even if you survive, what's the point? Enduring of enduring struggle. So this little kid, that version of me as a child knew I would never walk. I knew it, I knew it. I saw my legs and the bandage change. I'm burned to the bone in some areas, I'm never walking. And then Roy would come in and say, boy, listen to me. You will walk. And I resented him. I hated him. I began to listen to him by the end of not only the film but my life. I loved him. He never saw me walk while I was at Mercy. He never saw really? Oh man, I could bear no weight when they rolled me out of the hospital.
Brian Reardon (09:17):
Okay.
John O'Leary (09:18):
They tell the story a little bit more succinctly.
Brian Reardon (09:20):
Yeah, I was going to say, yeah, because so wow, that's pretty amazing. Then for him years later, then you get a reunion with him.
John O'Leary (09:28):
I mean, I know you saw that it maybe in the book or my speech, but even in the film when they show that scene, I'm not allowed to talk about which scenes rate highest, but I will tell you, yeah, that scene, it rates about as high as anything else in the film because it's so unexpected and it celebrates in some regards, the least among us. You got a CNA, who did his job, was paid for it did it for a couple decades. I learned later on and never was told by patients the impact that he had in their lives, not to the full extent he did. And here he is two decades later at some corporate event, flown down, treated like royalty, reconnected with an old patient, and he receives a standing ovation from a group of strangers for the work he did. And if that's a Hollywood finish, it's sweet. What a nice little Hollywood finish. Next we'll see Superman. But the reality of Soul on Fire is it's not Hollywood. It's true.
(10:26):
It happened in Mercy. It happened with one of your members. It happened with one of the leaders who served within that organization on the fourth floor, a man I spoke to yesterday. So it is just so cool to see what real heroes look like in life actually being celebrated in life. And then the response to the audience to that, because I think we're done with Batman, I think we're done with squirrels able to talk. I think we're looking for evidence of actual heroes. And it turns out they normally don't wear capes. They wear name badges, they walk the halls, man, they serve patients.
Brian Reardon (10:58):
We heard a lot about that during COVID. We think we've lost a little bit of that. And so I think you reminding us that the people that serve in health care are heroes and they do it for the right reasons. And we like to think in Catholic health care that there's even a little bit more of that in that mission. The other caregiver that I want to point out that really I thought was very impactful in the movie was an environmental services gentleman that you watch in the movie and you keep seeing this gentleman cleaning your room and you're kind of wondering what's the context there? And you learn later in the movie, and I'll let you set it up, there's a consult, there's grand rounds with your physician and I assume residents. And he ask, what does he ask the question,
John O'Leary (11:41):
Who is the most importance in this little boy's miracle? And the residents are guessing, of course, you physician, great doctor, mighty hand to God, you are the one who saved him, and one day we will do likewise. And he corrects them and says, no, it's not me. I was important. But no, the nurses chief of staff, and they go through all the folks that you might
Brian Reardon (12:02):
Expect. They say you were the most
John O'Leary (12:03):
Important. And the boy himself, the fight his will to live his faith, and eventually the doctor calls in someone in the hallway, and it is a true story. His name was LaVell. We used to call them janitors. The man used to walk in with a mop and a radio on his waist, and he used to put the little radio on my pillow and he would clean my room. They're like, I get emotional telling that story right now. You see it in my face. You don't have to do that. You don't have to do any of that. You can check on the poster that you clean the room and move on. And this man went above and beyond to such an extent that it not only changed the way I talk about him 37 years later, LaVell, it changed how a physician felt about who the biggest hero was among us, not me or him, to call the custodial staff leader into the room and celebrate him among the staff.
(12:57):
And so Lyle is no longer among us, but what a gift to remind all of us of our hand in someone else's miracle. And one more thing I'll say is in a film, films are, they're written out. You act out every scene, you put it all together and then you see what you got. And was Soul on Fire, we had about two hours and 40 minutes, and that may work with Dances with Wolves or something, man. But today you don't have two hour, 40 minute movies. So they had to cut this thing back and my worry was always, they're going to put LaVell on the floor.
Brian Reardon (13:27):
That would've been, I'm glad they didn't because that was a really powerful part. And particularly for those of us who work in Catholic health care, recognizing the role that everybody plays. Again, you have your surgeons, you have your specialists, your physicians that do amazing things, but it truly is a united team effort. And so to elevate LaVell's role in, again, keeping you safe, keeping germs, because I think the physician said the number one killer of burn victims is an infection. He was able to keep you safe. I thought that was a really powerful testament and to the work, you're really working now with Mercy to elevate the fact that everybody is a caregiver,
John O'Leary (14:04):
Right? Well, even as a child, just kind of going off script for a moment, when you are burned, when I was burned, as they're doing the bandage changes, I'm looking at my body, seeing the body that I had before I was burned, becoming a body that I no longer wanted at all. Even a kid can hate themselves and I did because I knew I would never become who I was and I knew I would never find love. But on my best days in hospitals, the caregivers were coming in and out of my room. I knew if ever I found love where I would, that she would work in a Catholic health system, that I didn't know the color of her scan her eyes, nothing about this woman, but I knew where her heart would align her to work. Later on. And as a junior in college, I bumped into a girl named Elizabeth Grace who was studying occupational therapy. And a long story, you can watch the movie Soul on Fire in all great theaters right now, but the movie tells a story pretty accurately. She's an OT and her first job is at a place called Mercy. So man, only God. could orchestrate a story like this.
Brian Reardon (15:11):
Kind of a fairytale.
John O'Leary (15:12):
It's Hollywood man, but unlike most it's real.
Brian Reardon (15:15):
Yeah. Amazing. Amazing. Well, again, we look at going back to the caregiver piece, what would you say again to our colleagues in Catholic health care that are listening and recognizing? Because there's been a lot written about this. I mean, there's all these organizations out there about the patient experience. You were a patient for a long time. Again, you were a kid. But from your perspective, what do those of us who serve in Catholic health care, what is one or two things we really need to take away from your perspective as a patient in understanding how that journey to healing can happen?
John O'Leary (15:53):
Maybe the first thing I would say, Brian, is the message I heard when I was 30, that my life was a precious, priceless gift. I had one job say yes to being used for good in my own position in life. As a young man, I needed to know that. And so maybe for some of your listeners and viewers, they may be in a season where they need to be reminded of that fact, not opinion, not hope. It's a fact that you have royal blood coursing through your veins, you've been anointed with this position to do work that is mission centric, act like it, act like it matters because it does. So you've got one job, say yes to being used for good. That might be the first piece. The second is the value of knowing your personal mission. I'm a speaker and a writer, and now in this film and all these other roles, I have the honor of serving alongside of mercy, but I'm a dad and I'm a son, I'm a husband, I'm your buddy. I do all these jobs. So how do you try to do all of them? Well, where you are, and I think it's being rooted in mission, not just your organization's mission, but your individual one.
Brian Reardon (16:59):
And that's a wonderful, I guess transition to the last question I have, and then I'm going to have Josh weigh in with any final thoughts on this conversation is in Catholic health care we have a vision statement and it is we will empower bold change to elevate human flourishing. And when we talk about human flourishing, we talk about the ability of every single person to thrive. So your comments right now I think fit perfectly in that. My last question to you would be, as you go on and speak with folks, you've got this podcast, amazing guest that I look through, all the people you've talked to, you do speeches in front of thousands of people, you now have this movie, you're interacting with people. What do we need to do as a society to really recognize that we're all in it together and again, our role is to individually and collectively thrive. What would you say to that and what are you hearing from people that you interact with? Is there enough of an appetite for that?
John O'Leary (17:53):
Well, you're asking kind of a loaded question, but I'll give you, it is hopefully a pretty succinct answer. One of the first things I would encourage you to do, and I'll try to offend everybody equally on this one, is turn off Fox and then turn off MSNBC and then turn off CNN. So that ought to offend everybody equally, all listeners and viewers, we are being inundated with these messages of how miserable the world is. And if we're not careful, we will believe it. And if you ask your grandparent or great grandparent, if you're lucky enough to have one in your life still or great, great grandparent, what their life was like when they were growing up. It's not even similar. I spent 12 years in construction and early on I was working. You and I are recording in the city of St. Louis and five minutes south of where we are, there's a town called ard.
(18:37):
I'm working construction. It's a small little building. An older lady walks in and says, I was born here, so were my seven siblings. It's a one room house. I said, where was your bathroom back then? Because they've expanded. She said, we had no indoor plumbing, they had no electricity. This is a woman alive who was able to walk into this building just 15 years ago and share how difficult her world was then. And so we become very familiar with the air we breathe. So the first thing I would do is turn off the messages that are reminding you every single waking hour how bad it is. It's better than they claim. So that might be a good place to start. The second to go back to that drumbeat, your life is a precious, priceless gift. You got one job, say yes to being used for good.
(19:17):
And then maybe the final thing I would say is I have a picture of I got a hero wall at my office, and one of them is Martin Luther King Jr. And it's a picture of him speaking to middle schoolers in Philadelphia. And it's the message he's delivering when he's talking about if you are called to be a street sweeper, sweep streets so all the hosts of heaven stop what they're doing and say they're lived a street sweeper who swept his streets. Well imagine delivering that message today in Philadelphia into a middle school of underprivileged kids. When King delivered that in the late sixties, they stopped what they were doing and they stood to applaud. There was no job below us back then to do well. And I think today we're waiting for things to be handed to us and then we'll do it well. And I think there can be power when you recognize whatever it is, man, do it. So all the hosts who are watching you in heaven stop to say there lived a caregiver who did her work well.
Brian Reardon (20:14):
Amen. Josh, any reflections as we wrap this conversation up?
Josh Matejka (20:18):
Yeah, thanks John. I really appreciate your perspective and it's encouraging to hear you speak as always. Getting back to your point about turning off the messages about how bad the world is, about all the things that divide us, I'm wondering that in your conversations with people, whether they're patients or policy makers or politicians or just anybody you might meet that is inspired by your story, what would you say are the things that we can all rally around? What are the common denominators that maybe we're not seeing that will bring us together rather than divide us? You've talked about that a little bit, but maybe what are some specific things?
John O'Leary (21:03):
So I had the pleasure of working in a Catholic health system for a few years as a chaplain, and sometimes there's a misunderstanding that chaplain's role is to evangelize. And that's not exactly the role of a chaplain or a caregiver. Our role ultimately is to love people where they are. And the way I always try to model that love and that care as a chaplain was to follow the wisdom of Jesus Christ at the well. So he is with a woman from a different gender, from a different background, different culture, different faith, who has sent 11 different ways to Rome and then back again. I mean this woman has made some mistakes in her life and yet here's our Messiah, loving her, not judging her, just being with her, putting her arms around her as she was. It's always amazing to me when we meet people where they are and we hold our judgments to ourself and we just let 'em go, the judgments I've always found reflect far more on the people casting the stones than the people actually being hit by them.
(22:05):
So in a world that is quick to tweet out and quick to judge and quick to hate, candidly, our job in particular in Catholic health care is to love the one in front of us. And here's really an important piece, including the reflection in the mirror. I think a big reason for the divisiveness, the cynicism, the hatred these days is not because of the other, it's because of ourselves. If you don't love yourself, if you don't really recognize the royal blood cos and through your veins, it is extraordinarily difficult to love the one in front of you and see the royal blood coursing through their veins, even if they look, act, vote worship differently than you. So in the film we did this drumbeat of a sentence that was, I love you and there's nothing you can do about it. And if you've ever read my book or you see me speak, you recognize that's something I usually pull through when I'm thinking of judging someone, whoever that person might be, I always go back to that line, I love you and there's nothing you can do about it. And it just allows me to unc unclench my fist, open up my heart, smile a little bit and meet that person where they are. So that might be the very first and the biggest thing I would encourage others to do.
Josh Matejka (23:12):
That's great. Thanks John.
John O'Leary (23:13):
Thanks, Josh
Brian Reardon (23:13):
Wonderful, wonderful conversation. Again, your movie, it's national release, right? It's all over the country.
John O'Leary (23:21):
It is all over the country, man. I mean, in God's hands. I mean only someone far more powerful than I could take an introverted academically struggling nobody and turn this into a story that could be heard all around the world. So I've been blessed to speak around the world. The book has traveled around the world, and now the film is in theaters around the world. It's called Soul on Fire. I hope your listeners and viewers check it up, bring your family, bring your floors, bring your people. They will recognize the dignity in their days and be inspired.
Brian Reardon (23:54):
It's really inspiring. Well, congratulations on everything you've done, and again, thank you for being with us and just sharing your perspectives. Again, it's I think, important to again, love each other no matter what. So that's a good way to end it. Amen. John O'Leary again, he is an author, he's a motivational speaker, he's a podcaster, and he's the subject of a new film called So On Soul On Fire. Thanks for being with us.
John O'Leary (24:19):
Thank you, Brian.
Brian Reardon (24:20):
And again, I'm your host, Brian Reardon. This has been another episode of Health Calls, the podcast of the Catholic Health Association of the United States. We're recording this episode Once Films here in St. Louis. Our executive producer you just saw is Josh Matejka. Our scheduling producer is Sarah Marchant. We'd encourage you to comment and if you want, share our podcast on social media, you can find our podcasts on all the streaming platforms and now on YouTube. And of course, you can always go to our website, chausa.org to get access to the podcast and to get some show notes and transcripts as well. As always, thanks for listening and watching.