Every day, new technologies are making their way into health care settings. Whether it's AI recorders and transcribers or robotic surgical tools, it's a reality that providers and systems must face.
Every day, new technologies are making their way into health care settings. Whether it's AI recorders and transcribers or robotic surgical tools, it's a reality that providers and systems must face.
Cyril Philip, Vice President of Digital Ventures at Bon Secours Mercy Health and Digital Ventures Lead at Accrete Health Partners, joins Health Calls to discuss the logistical benefits that introducing these technologies can have for care providers. He offers insight into how workflow can be optimized, how patient interactions can be prioritized and how systems can wisely manage the influx of new data and tech.
Resources
Read Cyril's interview with MedCity News
Brian Reardon (00:07):
Welcome to Health Calls, the podcast of the Catholic Health Association of the United States. I'm your host, Brian Reardon, and with me is Josh Matejka. He's the executive producer of Health Calls. Good to see you, Josh. Good to see you too. And in just a moment, we're going to welcome in Cyril Philip, he's Vice President of Digital Health Ventures with Bon Secours Mercy Health, and he's the digital ventures lead for Accrete Health. We'll invite Cyril to join us in just a second. But Josh, before we do that, let's talk a little bit about this episode. This is about implementing new tech in care settings, and a lot of this season is about humanity and technology, and we've done a lot of, I guess, bigger picture conversations, if you will. This episode, we're going to get a little more specific, so tell our listeners a little bit about that.
Josh Matejka (00:55):
Yeah, I mean, obviously when you're talking about concepts and in topics as big as healthcare and Catholicism and technology, you tend to kind of veer toward the more in the clouds types of conversations. But I think it's important for us to remember that healthcare is about people and it's about taking care of patients. It's about that human to human interaction. We've talked about it pretty much on every episode, the season thus far. So we don't want to just stay in the clouds, we want to get on the ground. We want to talk about the real everyday impacts that these new technologies are having with patients. And so when I was doing some research on the season, I came across an article in Med City News from September, 2024 where Cyril, who's going to join us here in a second, talked so specifically and so articulately about the challenges of implementing new tech in healthcare and in this case Catholic healthcare. And when we talked to him, he had so many great specifics and practical things to say about the very specific ways that healthcare can benefit caregivers, can benefit patients, and benefit the human to human experience between them. So I'm really, really excited. I think our listeners are going to take a lot away from this in terms of what they can be doing on the ground in order to better care for their patients and stay up to date with new technologies that are emerging.
Brian Reardon (02:11):
What I'm hoping this is a conversation of where the rubber meets the road, so to speak, because you're right, we've talked about, the last episode was on the theological perspectives, which again, no pun intended up in the clouds, but I think now we need to kind of bring it back to earth a little bit and really talk some practicalities. So let's do that. And let's bring in again, Cyril Philip, vice President of Digital Ventures for Bon Secours. Welcome, Cyril.
Cyril Philip (02:34):
Hi, everyone. Appreciate the time to be on this podcast.
Brian Reardon (02:37):
Yeah, so a lot of people, again, we think of artificial intelligence. I think a lot of folks are concerned that it is a technology that might take away jobs, might impede the creativity that we all have as humans. However, from your perspective, I think as we've talked to you before, AI in healthcare really is intended to, I guess, enhance or aid the work we do in caring for patients. Can you explain about how this might be done in a hospital setting or maybe just speak, I guess to start with from your experience with Bon Secours?
Cyril Philip (03:10):
Yeah, so first I do want to say that I understand where clinicians are workers are coming from with respect to our concerns around AI. Anytime there's a new technology that comes into the focus, there's rightfully some apprehension around the adoption of it. That being said, I think if we take a step back and we really take a look at this type of technology, generative ai, this is something that we really haven't seen historically. If you look in the distant past when robots were starting to be used in manufacturing and essentially replacing workers, that's necessarily, in my view, I think that's nearly impossible to replicate using this technology, especially for that patient to provider interaction maybe in the distant future. But over the next 20 or 30 years, I don't think it's going to get to a point where physicians or providers will be disintermediated from that patient interaction.
(04:09):
And I think one of the benefits of generative AI technology is that it's really meant to empower physicians and empower our providers not necessarily to replace or to change how they operate. So one example to really get thinking about this is when we're using digital ambient listening technology, which essentially helps providers scribe their interactions with patients into the EMR. This technology really just lives in the background. So the only change in workflow for a provider would be at the front end mentioning to the patient that they are using an AI technology and that it's recording in the background. But beyond that, there's no other sort of workflow change or anything that needs to be taken place by that provider. They simply interact directly with the patient. And so it really is a net positive in my mind, to a lot of workflow. And that's true for many other uses of generative AI and this technology, whether it's back office functionality around billing, whether it's improving radiology workflows, it's really in the background helping our physicians and our clinicians really interact better with patients and really do their jobs better.
Brian Reardon (05:31):
And that dictation that happens, it's been around forever, but I think the technology now is to the point where it is so accurate that really it does capture, I don't know if it's quite a hundred percent, but it's pretty darn close, right?
Cyril Philip (05:43):
Yes. And I think the difference between kind of the old style dictation and the new style ambient listening is that in dictation, a physician will have to literally dictate their notes to the system for it to recognize it, and then afterwards they'd have to go back and edit and add specific things and remove specific things into DMR record. In ambient listening technology, they simply have that conversation with the patient and the backend of AI technology will fill in into the MR specifically what they need to fill in. And so in the end, the physician saves a lot of time and that they will lead to review and check to make sure there's no inaccuracies. But in general, it's a lot more seamless in terms of inputting into the MR than it was with that old style dictation technology.
Brian Reardon (06:41):
In the first episode of this season, we actually brought up the scenario with our first guest, Tom Koulopoulos, about this notion of you are a patient, you are in a doctor's exam room, the doctor comes in, starts talking with you. That conversation and maybe the interaction with the nurse, maybe if you're a parent with the patient's, a child, that conversation within the room is being captured. And that in essence is going to help with the total, I guess, care delivery because I guess the patient theoretically could go back and read the notes from that conversation. So there's no misunderstanding on what the diagnosis is, what the treatment plan is. I mean, is that in concept really what this is intended to do?
Cyril Philip (07:23):
Yeah, I think there's two aspects of it. I think one is, I mean, all of us have been to the doctor in the last decade. I'd hope. Many times when we're seeing doctors, they're in front of a computer screen typing notes as we talk, or there's a scribe, a human scribe in the background typing notes. But the doctors may be checking those notes. And I would say that somewhat impersonal sometimes when you're having conversations and provider has to be looking at a screen. And I want to clarify that it's not the physician's fault. I mean, we're asking our clinicians to see patients and interact with patients, but also ensure that the EMR data is full and has the right information to ensure that the patient is well provided for in the future. And so this type of technology enables that physician to have that direct patient conversation. And talking one-on-one to a person is a lot better than talking one to in one to a computer to a patient. And so I think that's one side of it. And then the other side, Brian, that you had mentioned is the patient side. And so many of the health system leaders who are listening on this podcast, we serve underprivileged populations. And there are many times where the patients that come seeking care to our hospitals may not have kind of a medical background. I think that's kind of the majority.
Brian Reardon (08:50):
I think that's true for the vast majority of us that it's just a foreign language in some cases.
Cyril Philip (08:54):
And a lot of a physician is filling in notes into the after visit summary, during a visit with a patient and filling it in their mind in what comes in their mind. And that is a difficult task for many patients to really understand. And the power of generative AI technology is that it can take what that physician wrote in their mind, in their words, and frame it down in a way so that patients who may not have the vocabulary that that physician has could easily understand what's happening and what they need to do on their end. And I think that is a powerful tool, and I think we can delve a little bit deeper into what that provides from a standpoint of future care delivery and care plan optimization as well. But the possibilities around the patient side and improving the patient experience are palpable and significant.
Brian Reardon (09:52):
It's really about health literacy. I mean, if you can have a generative ai, again, we've talked sort of capturing the conversation, transcribing the conversation, but you're describing goes beyond that. It's almost then boiling it down and making sense of what could be typically a very complex conversation that the terminology being used may not be readily understood by most patients in an exam room. But what you're saying is AI gives us the opportunity to, in some ways contribute to greater health literacy.
Cyril Philip (10:21):
Yes. And I think one of the big benefits about generative AI technology overall is that it doesn't require a significant amount of expertise to use. And that is both for the physician as well as for the patient, meaning the patient may not even be aware that they're receiving a generative AI translation of their patient or their provider interaction. They will simply see a after visit summary that is concise and at a level that they truly understand. And the physician doesn't have to necessarily change their workflow or adjust anything they operate like they would normally do. And I think that is one thing that's, I think sometimes lost in the potential of this technology in that it really does provide a win-win for all parties involved in terms of the patient experience, the provider experience, and also just the delivery of care to a wider patient population.
Brian Reardon (11:20):
And sticking with the health literacy concept, a lot of patients now are getting used to portals, my portal, MyChart type of concept. A lot of times you can put an app on your phone that's going to give you the results even before your clinician has a chance to read 'em. So if you're going in for your annual physical and they're doing a bunch of blood work, and what you pull up your app and you're seeing all of these numbers and acronyms that unless you've got a medical degree, you may not, or you're going to go to Dr. Google and start looking 'em up, you're going to see those results. And maybe you're going to see the arrow is in the green zone, so you're going to feel good about that, but maybe an arrow is in the yellow or red zone. And that might start to concern you. So how do you see not just AI or generative ai, but how can technology be used to enhance the patient portal? So in other words, do that interface between the medical record and what a patient sees and is reading on their devices?
Cyril Philip (12:16):
Yeah, that's a great question. When you think about the generative AI capabilities, one is the ability to transcribe someone else's words into another set of words that can be easily understood by others, but there's additional technology beyond that. For example, highlighting words that describe certain outcomes. For example, if a blood glucose level of 95, for folks who may not understand, they may not know if that's good or bad, but generative AI could essentially just highlight that so that when you hover over it with your mouse or you look on your mobile device, it'll explain if that level is appropriate or not appropriate for where you are and why. And so essentially, it doesn't necessarily have to be just rewording everything. It could be empowering with additional information so that we create essentially a level playing field when it comes to understanding your care and understanding your health without necessarily changing too much about how you interact. Meaning you can access that through your app, you can access it through the web interface, through MyChart, through another front door mechanism that you have. And essentially, in my mind, levels that field so that everyone really understands their condition and what it means in a way that ensures that your care that you're looking to provide or the care that you're looking to receive is something that is the right path for you as an individual
Brian Reardon (13:55):
And understood better too. What about chatbots? We're now so used to those in environments like banking or really any kind of online customer service. I know Secours is doing some work with a product called Catherine. Can you talk a little bit about that, and is it fair to describe that in the same vein of the chatbots that we see online in other sectors?
Cyril Philip (14:18):
Yeah, and so I guess maybe taking a step back, one of the challenges that we as providers have is that right now, even if we were to hire thousands of more employees on our end, we're never really going to be able to provide a way for every physician to interact with every patient on their panel on a daily basis. It's just physically and economically not possible. And so these type of conversational AI technologies is a way for us as a health system to touch more patients than whatever would be possible with existing resources. And so conversational AI is very different than the old technology that many are used to. So maybe dating a little further back, but back in the day there were phone trees and there's still phone trees today where if you needed to find out results around a test or you needed to understand a question to a provider or get to talk to a provider, you need to kind of call up and then click one for this department, two to talk to a provider, three to talk to this specific provider.
(15:36):
And essentially, it's kind of like a somewhat impersonal way to get the care that you need. And so conversationally on the conversation I had that we're using is very simply being able to ask a question about your specific care needs and receiving access to information that is curated by your health system partner and delivering and delivered empathetically in a way that is having a conversation, not necessarily just receiving inputs or sorry, receiving outputs. Essentially you're getting a response that is similar to, and not exactly, but similar to what you would receive if you were talking to a person on a phone. And so I think that type of technology is only made possible through generative AI and the ability for it to essentially create new content and create new conversations that way. And so that type of technology is very powerful, and we're really on, I would say, the front end of leveraging it to its full potential. And I think that's something that really has the ability to change how patients receive care and really interact with their healthcare providers moving forward.
Brian Reardon (16:52):
And in a previous episode, we talked about empathy and how generative AI can actually, in some cases provide empathetic answers, if you will, which is just amazing. But again, that really depends on the human element at the front end in order for that to happen. So I think that's probably something we should just mention quickly, is there's work that needs to be done as these technologies continue to advance. It takes a lot of time and effort by caregivers, clinicians at the front end, right?
Cyril Philip (17:23):
Yes. And I think there's two sides of the coin when it comes to adopting generative AI. I think one is a challenge, which is the reality is generative AI today is not regulated. And it was on a call a couple of days ago with our government affairs team, and there's just not existing legislation around generative AI and the use for patients. There's high level guidance, but not anything super specific. And so what that means is that we as health systems need to be self-regulating around the type of technology and what it's being used for our patients. And this leads into really one of the big opportunities that we have as health systems when it comes to generative ai, which is generative ai. Companies need health systems to build their technology. They need our data, they need our clinicians' expertise. They need our ability to ensure that what they're creating is actually viable.
(18:26):
And with that need comes an opportunity for us to be the definers of the technology. So the Catherine conversational AI tool that you had mentioned, it's a tool that we were helping co-develop in terms of providing it with the resources that fit the needs of our patient population, our clinicians, or reviewing the resources that would be provided to patients in that conversational interaction. And that is a very powerful tool to have as a health system and to kind of be there in the development of these technologies and making sure that it's created an image that is really delivering on the mission that we as health systems have to provide empathetic and meaningful care to our patients.
Brian Reardon (19:13):
And as we wrap up here, we've scratched the surface really on just a few examples of how these emerging technologies are shaping the way care is delivered. What advice would you give to those listening about as new technologies come on, or even some of the ones we just talked about in kind of taking a step back and implementing that? What are some of the, I guess, cautions and what are some of the hopes you have?
Cyril Philip (19:39):
Yeah, so I think one of the cautions is that similar to if you look historically when analytics became very widespread when in health systems, health systems need to bring in informaticists and data experts to help ensure that we're delivering on care or delivering the value of the data that we have. And so similarly for health systems, we need to start bringing in that expertise around AI and around AI technology to ensure that we have the ability to judge these technologies in an effective manner. And so I think that's a challenge that's going to come to bear in that that's true for most industries outside of healthcare as well. Every industry is trying to gobble up AI experts to come in and provide information around evaluating AI models and evaluating AI solutions. But that is something that we as health systems need to do as well.
(20:38):
And then the opportunity I want to highlight is, and this is something that we've done for us, is that there's really an to be the builders of the next level of technology. And I think what we built for us is a very strong co-development strategy where we partner with companies to help them develop these generative AI solutions. And we receive value for that technology that we helped. And I think that is something I'd kind of leave for executives. As you look at partnering with companies, we're going to be adding a lot of value to these companies as partners, and we as health systems should be seeking equity or returns from that partnership. And it's not something to be afraid of asking. And I think a lot of the interactions I've had with companies is they're more than willing to help or more than willing to partner with health systems. They understand that benefit that brings. And so that is a big opportunity for health system leaders out there to really shape this next generation of technology that, as I've mentioned here, it is really game-changing to the industry as a whole and has the power to help provide better care for our patients and help improve the experience for our caregivers and our physicians as well.
Brian Reardon (22:02):
Great perspectives. Again, that was Cyril Philip, he serves as vice President of Digital Health Ventures with Bon Secours Mercy Health, and he's the digital ventures lead for Accrete Health. Cyril, thanks for being with us.
Cyril Philip (22:15):
Thanks everyone. Appreciate the time.
Brian Reardon (22:17):
And this has been another episode of Health Calls, the podcast of the Catholic Health Association of the United States. I'm your host, Brian Reardon. Our executive producer is Josh Matejka. We have production support from Yvonne Stroder, and our engineer is Brian Hartmann at Clayton Studios. If you like this episode, please give us a good rating. We appreciate getting your feedback. Of course, you can always download health calls on your favorite podcast streaming services, or you can get it from our website, chausa.org. Thanks for listening.