Dennis Gonzales, Ph.D., CHA's Senior Director of Mission Innovation and Integration and Ann Garrido, author of Redeeming Power: Exercising the Gift as God Intended and associate professor of homiletics at Aquinas Institute of Theology in St. Louis, join Health Calls to discuss the importance of a leader's positive worldview in effectively navigating change.
Dennis Gonzales, Ph.D., CHA's Senior Director of Mission Innovation and Integration and Ann Garrido, author of Redeeming Power: Exercising the Gift as God Intended and associate professor of homiletics at Aquinas Institute of Theology in St. Louis, join Health Calls to discuss the importance of a leader's positive worldview in effectively navigating change. In this enlightening conversation, they explore the concept of "a spirituality of power," highlighting how managerial courage and visionary leadership appear in daily interactions within an organization. They delve into the transformative power of ongoing reflection and examine how Jesus understood and exercised power. By considering the relational nature of power, Gonzales and Garrido offer insights into how a leader's understanding of power informs their role in promoting human flourishing and working for the common good.
Resources:
Embracing Change: It's Who We Are by Dennis Gonzales, Ph.D. – Health Progress Spring 2024
Redeeming Power: Exercising the Gift as God Intended by Ann M. Garrido
Health Calls: Leadership with Integrity
April 9, 2024
Brian Reardon:
Dennis Gonzales, good to have you back with us.
Dennis Gonzales:
Hey, Brian. Good to be here.
Brian Reardon:
The weather is getting a little warmer. We're kind of seeing spring. Are you a gardener type? Do you get out and get your hands dirty in the soil?
Dennis Gonzales:
I am. I love to be outside. I was outside yesterday picking up branches from that latest round of storms we have and just love being outside. Love being in nature.
Brian Reardon:
And I'm kind of back and forth. Sometimes I like to be out in the yard working. Other times I prefer not to. So, it is a time of year though when we're getting out there and watching things start to grow. And so, in this conversation we're going to have today, we're going to talk about leadership and specifically leading with integrity, which is the theme of our latest issue of Health Progress.
Normally Betsy Taylor would be sitting across from me here in the studio, but you wrote a column and so we thought we'd have you as sort of our first guest on this episode. So, are you ready to get started?
Dennis Gonzales:
Yes. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.
Brian Reardon:
This is Health Calls, the podcast of the Catholic Health Association of the United States. I'm your host Brian Reardon and my two guests for this episode are, you just heard Dennis Gonzales. Dennis is our senior director of mission innovation and integration at CHA. He's also a PhD in organizational development. Again, Dennis, good to have you with us. And we are going to talk in just a moment with Ann Garrido. She is author and associate professor of homiletics at the Aquinas Institute of Theology here in St. Louis. And her most recent book is Redeeming Power: Exercising the Gift as God Intended. And we're going to talk about that book as it relates again to the idea of leading with integrity.
So, Dennis, I want to start with you. Again, the theme of the spring issue of Health Progress is about leading with integrity and includes really some great articles by CEOs of our member systems. You also contributed a column which I really enjoyed reading and I would encourage our listeners to read that. And it looks at the importance of a leader having a positive worldview when it comes to effectively navigating change. So, tell us a little bit more about that column.
Dennis Gonzales:
Thanks, Brian. The column actually came to life after a webinar that I had done. CHA hosted a webinar, a well-being webinar on helping leaders to be effective in turbulent or chaotic times. And so, after the webinar, I reflected on it and then it just seemed to make sense based on the theme of the issue of Health Progress leading with integrity. So, I decided to write an article about leadership. And went back and did some more research, looked at some things I had written, or I had read. And you boil it all down and you can have all this jargon and all kinds of terminology around leadership, it actually boiled down to the concept that truly effective leaders and leaders with integrity have a positive worldview. That is, they're hopeful, which is a beautiful thing to think about. It's Easter season right now and we are a hopeful people.
And so, it's a beautiful thought that effective leaders are hopeful. We've overcome so much adversities in our history, if you think about it, Brian. You know the stories from all the health systems. Every single health system has their story. They encountered fires, they encountered hurricanes, there was a civil war, a world war, and through it all those ministries under the leadership mostly of sisters succeeded. And they didn't just succeed, they thrived. It's a core characteristic of effective leaders if you look at it through history, that they believe that all will be well, that there is hope in the future, and they basically have a positive worldview. No matter what chaos may be around them at a given moment, when you look at the longer view that God is with us and that all will be well.
Brian Reardon:
And you also write that you believe managerial courage and visionary leadership are important and really demonstrated in those daily interactions that we have with our colleagues within an organization.
Dennis Gonzales:
Yeah. And that really gets to integrity if you think about it. When we think about integrity in leadership or in an organization, it's basically saying or asking the question, are we who we say we are. Are we who we say we are? Because if you're honest... I call it the looking-in-the-mirror question. If you're honest, and that's a big if, right? If we're honest, we can say, yes, we are who we say we are. Well, what does that mean? Well, do we act in a way that is in line with our mission and values. When we make decisions, do we ask the question how does this align with our values or how will we communicate and explain to our staff in the community.
Because whether we are honest with ourselves when we ask the question, are we who we say we are, I promise you those watching us, our staff, community leaders, they know if we are acting in a way that is true to who we are. So that requires courage. And we call it managerial courage where you're able to answer that question and sometimes challenge others in the organization to answer that question.
Brian Reardon:
And before I bring in into the discussion, last thing about your article is you discussed the power of ongoing reflection and you also talk about the importance of cultivating one's personal spirituality and that need for ongoing formation, which we talked a lot about on these Health Calls episodes. So, can you just quickly wrap up as we summarize your column, really the importance of cultivating one's personal spirituality?
Dennis Gonzales:
Absolutely, Brian. So, reflection is critical, and I would say now more than ever. As you know, we live in a fast-paced world. We have back-to-back meetings, shifting social, political factors, economic pressure, social media, I could go on and on and on. We live in this instant gratification culture largely due to technology in many ways. So, in that world, it's more vital than ever that leaders withdraw and reflect to deliberate on how best to respond, how best to act for the good of the ministry. You and I know that rash decisions are rarely good ones, right? Think of a rash decision you've made. Odds are it wasn't the best decision. So, I encourage leaders when we talk about reflection, and you can call it prayer, you can call it meditation, you can call it whatever works for your discernment, you really have to build it into your schedule. Take lunch, take breaks.
Brian Reardon:
Take a walk. Yeah.
Dennis Gonzales:
Yeah, exactly. Why do we have hour meetings? Can they be 45 minutes? No screen time. I know that's a big ask. But if you have kids, think about that one. So, we call it prayer in our ministries, but it can be called many things. And the last thing I just want to add is again, historically if you think about it, the sisters, primarily sisters who founded our ministries, they were really busy, they were working really hard. They ran everything in these hospitals, and they retreated literally. They went to community, they had daily prayer, they had meditation so that they could reflect and pray, which strengthened them to go back out and work in the ministry. And maybe we can learn something from that.
Brian Reardon:
Yeah. And I think taking time to read, not just reading in front of a screen. And so that's why we're going to bring in Ann Garrido. Again, she is an author and associate professor at Aquinas Institute of Theology. And her recent book, which we're going to talk about is Redeeming Power: Exercising the Gift as God Intended. So, Ann, welcome to Health Calls. Great to have you with us.
Ann Garrido:
Oh gosh, Brian, thanks for inviting me.
Brian Reardon:
Yeah, so we wanted to talk to you because again, you've written this book and you've written a lot of books actually about the skills and personality traits that help leaders exercise their power. So, a little bit different than what Dennis was saying is really talking about how you exercise your power to benefit the organizations and people that you as a leader serve. So, I guess to start off with, can you share some insights that you've gleaned in talking to people for your books over the years?
Ann Garrido:
Sure. And it's a particular delight to get to share some of these insights on this podcast because Dennis was actually one of the people who I interviewed as a leader when I was doing research to prepare to write the book. And so, I could share one insight, for example, that I learned just from Dennis that he was one who gave me an image that I ended up using in the book of floaties. And let me explain that. People tend to narrow their definitions of power and think about power as coming from the role that they have within the organization. Like if they're the CEO, they have a lot of power that others do not. But power actually comes from many sources. So, for example, personal charisma can be a source of power, integrity, like Dennis was just talking about, character can be a great source of power.
So sometimes leaders rely a lot on being able to get things done through their authority or their role in the institution. But one of the things that Dennis taught me was that the power of role is kind of like a kid's floaty in the pool. It'll keep you from sinking when you first get into the job, probably for about six months, but if that's your only source of power, you're going to be in trouble. So, if you do not have the power of integrity, the power of your character, eventually you're going to sink. And that you want to have multiple sources of power to draw on to be able to accomplish in your organization what you want to be able to accomplish.
Brian Reardon:
And you talk a lot about power in your book, which I really found very interesting, the power to and the power over. Can you go a little bit deeper, I guess to start with, in your exploration of power as understood by Jesus?
Ann Garrido:
I do think that this is part of what makes Jesus such a mysterious and attractive figure in history. Because in so many ways Jesus had no power if you're defining power as something that comes from a role of authority within an organization or an institution. But Jesus's power really came from His being in totally right relationship with God, with others, which is this power of integrity that's focused on in this issue of Health Progress. So what I suggest in the book is that Jesus got His understanding of power, not from reading about how power was understood in the newspapers of His day, but in reading and living out of scripture, and in particular the vision of power that's found in the creation stories of Genesis.
In Genesis, we hear about God making the human in God's own image and likeness, basically calling us as humans to be God's representatives on earth. And Jesus lived that charge more fully than any human being before or after in that sense. So, one way of thinking about it, we could say that Jesus was God because He was so fully human, He totally lived the human vocation to be God's image on earth.
Brian Reardon:
Yeah. And what a great, great message. Again, as Dennis said, we are in Easter season. And going back to something Dennis said too. In your writing, you really encourage your readers to cultivate again, that spirituality of power. And Dennis touched on that, the need to be spiritual and have that be an element and as you're exercising authority or power. Can you maybe elaborate on this a little bit? And also, I've been struck over the years of earlier in my career, really the concept of servant leadership. And really as a leader you have responsibilities, but you're really there at the end of the day to work for those that you may have power over or power to work with. So can you maybe elaborate a little bit about... We'll break it up into two. How's that sound, Ann? Talk a little bit first about the spirituality of power.
Ann Garrido:
Sure. When I did my studies in theology, the classic definition of theology that I received was this one from the 11th century. St. Anselm says that theology is faith seeking an understanding of. So, one could write a whole theology of power, of faith seeking an understanding of power. I went in through the door as you're illuminating of spirituality and my own working definition of spirituality is faith seeking a way to live something. So, in this case, a spirituality of power to me means a faith seeking a way to live my power well, that I'm trying to make sure that I'm living my power in a way that is healthy and holy, and that faith gives me a resource to do that. So definitely part of living power is service, right? To live it in a healthy and holy way, service is a part of that.
So going back to Genesis, if we think about how Genesis unfolds step-by-step in that first story of creation. First, there's lights and the light has to be there in order for plants to appear on the next day, and then animals, and then there's humans. And what you can see is that each day of creation unfolding in that story in some way serves the next day. And that same is true for humans. We arrive in that story in Genesis on the sixth day. And sometimes we think of ourselves as being the crown jewel of creation, like creation is ending with us. But we have to always remember there's a seventh day to that story. And it's translated in English as like it's Sunday, the day of rest. The seventh day, a day of rest. But in Hebrew, the word is menuchah, which means more than just taking a nap. It means wholeness, harmony, all things working together for the good.
It's the day in which all of creation is able to find a home. And we have to remember that we who are created on the sixth day of creation, we're created to be in service of that seventh day. Our power, it has a purpose. And if what we're doing is leading, if we're leading and it's leading to anything that takes away from health, anything that takes away from wholeness, from harmony, from everything being able to find a home. If we're not working in a way that leads toward all things flowing together for the common good, then we're living out of the wrong story. So, if our power is being used in any way that's not for the service of this common good, this larger picture, we're not living out of the Genesis story.
Brian Reardon:
I love that, how that ties together. Because again, we think, oh, it's a day of rest. But again, going back to what Dennis said, it's also that need to really provide that space as leaders to reflect. So putting it in the frame of the seventh day of not only, like you said, the chance to maybe take a nap on the couch watching sports, but also that ability to really ground ourselves and sort of recalibrate what we're here and what we're meant to do.
Ann Garrido:
For sure. And whenever we take a seventh day of rest in our own life, it's a foreshadowing of the seventh day, you could say, on a grand scheme that has not yet arrived. Our reflection should remind us of what it is that we're working toward on the other six days of our life, right? Reflection gives us a chance to ask, is what I'm doing actually leading toward wholeness, common good, health, well-being for all of the earth.
Brian Reardon:
And the last thing I want to just touch base before we bring Dennis back into the conversation is again, you write about a leader's exercise of power is always in relationship with others and their exercise of power. So, can you talk a little bit about that?
Ann Garrido:
Sure. This was one of the interesting things also when I was getting into what was Jesus's understanding of power. When you go into Genesis, what I learned that's unique about Genesis, there's a lot of different creation stories from all over the world that would've been bouncing around even at the same time as Genesis was coming to be recorded. And a lot of them have that the king, the king is the representative of God on earth. What's really distinctive about Genesis is it says every single human being is the representative of God on earth. All of us are to be images of God, alive and well and helping to transform the world toward the seventh day. And so, what that means is that when we're exercising our power, it's never done as a solo act. It's never just me. Like I have an agenda for change, I have something I want to see happen in the world. It's always me in relationship to all the other people of the earth who have also been given this human vocation to help bring about the seventh day.
And so partly it's that I'm always trying to work in harmony with other people and I'm going to have to exercise my power in relationship to their power. So, power in itself is neither a good or a bad thing. I would say power itself is neutral. It all has to do with how you're using your power. So, are you using your power in a way as a leader to elevate human flourishing and common good? The power itself is not the problem but how it's used in right relationship with others.
Brian Reardon:
And Dennis, does that resonate with you?
Dennis Gonzales:
Yes, absolutely. I'm listening.
Brian Reardon:
It's kind of a leading question. Sorry.
Dennis Gonzales:
Yeah. I mean just beautifully said. I especially like, and when you talked about when we do retreat into a state of reflection, that that is an opportunity for us to pause, sort of get out of the fray, get out of the storm and reflect, and remember what is the bigger cause. And for us, we talk about, well, what's our mission and how is what I'm doing or what we're working on or what we're trying to decide, how is that going to further and sustain the mission. I really like the way you phrase that and a beautiful connection to the seventh day. Very nicely done.
Ann Garrido:
And Dennis, I'm so grateful for the connections that you're drawing to what you're talking about in your article around this need for reflection, to think about that as really built into the fabric of how we're supposed to work. I think with the Genesis story, it's kind of a... Six days a week, we can do all that we can to try to change the world for the best possible. And on the seventh day, we remember it's in hands bigger than ourself, and we need to place ourselves in the hand of God. And really remember, we're part of a bigger project that ultimately belongs in God's hands.
Brian Reardon:
And Ann, I want to give you the final word and reflect on this. Our vision statement is, this is CHA's vision statement, pretty recent in the last year, and it's simply these nine words. We will empower bold change to elevate human flourishing. From your research and writing, what does a leader need to do to make that actually happen, to empower bold change, to elevate human flourishing?
Ann Garrido:
Wow. I love that mission statement because to me what undergirds it is a healthy understanding of power. That power is not something that we have to be afraid of but that actually it's something that we want to embrace. One of the things that I found in my research was that some of the greatest abuse of power happened when people who actually do have power, didn't use it for the good or didn't use it at all, abdicated it, and that sometimes when they acted in a way that didn't have power. So, I think the mission statement that you've got to empower to really enable leaders to make bold changes out of the courage that they have power, and they want to utilize it well for common good for the seventh day.
Brian Reardon:
No, thanks for that reflection on our vision statement. Really appreciate that. It does, it all ties together, right, Dennis?
Dennis Gonzales:
It does.
Brian Reardon:
And again, so happy that Dennis Gonzales, our senior director of mission innovation and integration was able to join this conversation. And Ann Garrido author, associate professor of homiletics at Aquinas Institute of Theology, and the author of the book Redeeming Power: Exercising the Gift as God Intended. Thank you both for being here, for sharing your thoughts and insights on the topic of our current issue of Health Progress, and that is leading with integrity. I think both of your perspectives really added some richness to that topic. So, thank you both.
Ann Garrido:
Thank you.
Dennis Gonzales:
Thank you, Brian.
Brian Reardon:
And this has been another episode of Health Calls, the podcast of the Catholic Health Association of the United States. I'm your host, Brian Reardon. Joining me as producer for this episode is Jenn Lyke of CHA. And of course, our engineer is Brian Hartmann of Clayton Studios here in St. Louis. You can listen, download, and check out all the materials that go with Health Calls at our podcast page at chausa.org. You can also listen and download Health Calls on your favorite podcast platforms. Thanks for listening.