Health Calls Season 6, Episode 9 explores how Catholic health care extends beyond hospital walls through parish nurse programs. Host Brian Reardon and Executive Producer Josh Matejka welcome Megan Timm, Regional Director of Community Health for SSM Health in Wisconsin, to discuss a model that has flourished in SSM Health's local communities.
Timm explains how parish nurses serve as trusted health resources within parishes and neighborhoods, blending clinical expertise with community connection. These nurses provide screenings, education, and navigation support while addressing social needs and offering spiritual care, embodying the whole-person care that Catholic health systems strive to provide. Megan also shares insights on program impact, recruitment strategies, and the importance of adapting to evolving community needs. This episode underscores collaboration as a cornerstone for improving health outcomes and strengthening ties between faith and care.
Brian Reardon (00:04):
Welcome to Health Calls, the podcast of the Catholic Health Association of the Unitited States. I'm your host, Brian Reardon. And with me is Josh Matejka. Hey, Josh.
Josh Matejka (00:13):
Hey, Brian.
Brian Reardon (00:15):
So this episode, we're going to be talking about partnering with Parishes for Community Health. We're going to be diving into a parish nurse program up in Wisconsin. In just a moment, we're going to bring into the conversation. Megan Tim, she serves as the regional director for community health for SSM in Wisconsin. But before we bring Megan in, Josh, this is one of those topics that I think kind of fits into, again, the theme of the season is collaboration, United for Change. We've had other conversations about how Catholic health care works with other Catholic organizations with the Catholic Church. And again, at the end of the day, we're all about advancing human flourishing. So how did this topic kind of fit into the theme and how did this come about?
Josh Matejka (01:01):
Yeah. Well, so I mean, speaking from personal experience, I know a lot of people listening to this episode will have come at this topic a little differently, but when I started working at the Catholic Health Association, parish nursing was a concept that I wasn't really familiar with. I didn't grow up Catholic. And so getting to learn about these programs is a really cool, really exciting way that health care extends into the community. And so as we were getting into the season, we thought these parish nursing programs would be an excellent topic to highlight, something that highlights working in the community. And we started talking to Nancy Lim, who is our senior director of community benefit. And she was like, "Well, this program is really great. This program's really great." And then we got hooked up with Megan here in SSM Health, and we started talking to her about the program that's going on up there.
(01:50)
And we thought, this is a perfect example of how one of our CHA members is in the community in these different parishes and that this work is being shared. And it's truly a collaboration and care is being taken. And it looks a little different than what a traditional health care model might look like. But at the end of the day, it's affecting positive change and good things are coming out of it and people are being treated and trust is being developed. And those are all things that play into whole person care and human dignity flourishing. So I'm really excited for Megan to share her perspective and for people to learn a little bit more about the work that they're doing.
Brian Reardon (02:29):
Great. Well, thanks for that context. So yeah, let's invite in Megan Timm. Again, she's regional director of community health for SSM in Wisconsin. Hi, Megan. How are you?
Megan Timm (02:40):
I'm well. Thanks so much for having me. It's nice to be here.
Brian Reardon (02:43):
Yeah, it's great to have you. Well, I guess to start off with a very basic question, the parish nurse program that you work with in the Madison, Wisconsin area, tell us a little bit about that. How long has it been in existence? How did it start? Just give us a little background for those who maybe not be familiar with a parish nurse program like the one that you all work with.
Megan Timm (03:03):
Absolutely. Well, our parish nurse program has been existing for over 20 years and maybe closer to 25 now, but really it started with our nursing teams. Our clinical nursing teams really believed in the community connection. They believed in community voice and they believed in taking health care outside of the walls that we have built and taking health care to the people. And really that is SSM Health's legacy is taking health care to the people. And so we had a few nurses that helped develop this with our leadership team and build those relationships in the community at a few of our parishes. One is actually not a parish. I'm excited to talk about that program as well, where we have a community nurse. And it's been thriving ever since. The best part of this program, in my humble opinion as the community health director, is that it lives within the community health improvement team, that it is a natural fit to where we do community health work because they're just a beautiful extension of community health, but with that clinical expertise going out into the community.
(04:08)
So it's been a long time running program and a staple program for us at St. Mary's Madison.
Brian Reardon (04:14):
And philosophically, kind of touched on this, it's really encountering people out in the community. So the parish nurses, obviously they're members of a particular parish. They have that connection with the congregation, with the parishioners, but they also have a connection back to SSM. So can you talk a little bit about the individuals that serve as parish nurses?
Megan Timm (04:34):
Yeah, it's a really unique role, and it's a really special role. And one of our parishes, you're exactly right, that's the exact mold. Someone who is a parishioner, attends that parish, knows that parish well, ended up with a parish nurse position and was able to really flourish in that space. And another one of our locations, it is not a parish like I mentioned. It's a low income neighborhood that happens to have a parish nurse, and we're really dedicated to keeping it a parish nurse. That is more, that person is not from that neighborhood per se, but has a long life experience similar to a community health worker in the sense of navigating a lot of the social constructs in the community and knowing how to get people to the right places. So I think you're right, the positions themselves are really beautifully designed that they understand the parish, they understand the community they are serving because they either belong to it or understand it deeply and they know how to take it to that next level.
(05:33)
So they're a trusted site, they're a trusted person within the parish because of that health care credential and because people just know them for who they are as a person, not necessarily a health care worker. And so when those two things unite, what a beautiful gift. And so it's been a really beautiful relationship with the local parishes where we have these positions to be able to employ that. I think the other piece that kind of connects to that is that parishioners don't necessarily know that these are SSM Health employees. They don't necessarily know that SSM has taken them under our staffing model and that I love that actually. Some people would say, "Well, gosh, wouldn't you want people to know that SSM Health is providing these folks?" And really, that's not the point. The point is that people have a trusted person to ask their health care questions to or to get a blood pressure screening or to do a mental health screening because maybe that feels like maybe there's a stigma there and we're not quite comfortable, but we are with Cynthia because she's my parish nurse.
(06:35)
And so I think that's really the gift is that it's really built into our community health umbrella and our community benefit programming.
Brian Reardon (06:43):
So parishioners that work with your parish nurses, see your parish nurses, how does that work when they know about that? Is that something, does the priest get up on the pulpit and say, "Oh, by the way, at the end of mass, we've got donuts in the basement and don't forget we've got a parish nurse who's available for office hours." Talk a little bit about how the, I guess, program is socialized within a parish.
Megan Timm (07:09):
Yeah. Wouldn't that be great that if they just went up on the pulpit and said, "Go find your parish nurse, there's donuts there, and let's take your blood pressure while we're at it while you're consuming that donut." Really how it works is our parish nurses are really embedded in the parish, right? So the relationship we have with them is SSM Health is the employer and provides the oversight in the sense of that clinical background and clinical practice. And then the parish themselves really has carp watch on what is best utilization of that position. So they're often in the parish program or directory. All of them have an office space at the parish where folks know where to find them. They hold office hours. Sometimes it's educational where they're providing maybe a fall prevention class to parishioners and that's on the bulletin or the announcements at the parish that week.
(08:04)
So they're pretty embedded as if they are parish staff and because that's really what they are is that they are that community staff person. And so each parish is a little different whether, like I mentioned, they're on a bulletin or they're listed in the staff directory or if they just know where to find Nurse Carrie because Nurse Carrie is always here on Tuesday afternoons or on Monday nights for that Monday meal that she always hosts, for example. So in my opinion, I've been at SSM Health for about seven years now, and they were a best kept secret, I will say, until I had the privilege of being a part of this programming and helping to guide the work. So there's nothing like it, Brian.
Brian Reardon (08:48):
And you've mentioned this, it's not the traditional community health worker model, right?
Megan Timm (08:54):
No, it's not. And I think they flirt with that a little bit, I would say. There's a lot in the nursing world that they could do, but they're not documenting in an EHR, right? We're not keeping formal tabs because again, parishioners don't necessarily know that they're SSM employees. The parishioners don't necessarily think that they're getting health care from SSM. And so we want to be really thoughtful about that, about how we document and record and keep track of our community members in this program. Our parish nurses do a lot of the clinical aspects, like those traditional flu shots and blood pressure checks and answering health care navigation questions. Sometimes parishioners have a family member with a recent diagnosis and they don't know what that means and they just need a little bit of guidance and comfort into what might be next steps. And at the same time, they could be experiencing food insecurity for the first time and they may need help with Medicare enrollment or Medicaid enrollment.
(09:54)
And so there is kind of that community health worker mindset on that social navigation that pairs really beautifully with that nursing expertise.
Brian Reardon (10:04):
And is there a spiritual care component? Because again, Josh and I have been having these conversations and a theme that keeps coming up is attending to the whole person. Josh mentioned that in his context setting comments. What role do they have with that as far as helping parishioners who ... Again, they may have diabetes, they may have some chronic conditions, but they also need that support of sort of emotional or spiritual support. Yeah.
Megan Timm (10:30):
Whole person care is ... I mean, you could put that right next to parish nursing. Whole person care equals parish nursing, parish nursing equals whole person care. It is really all of the above. So from that mental health component to the physical health component to the spiritual health component. So at most of our partnerships with parishes, of course, that is really a staple of the work. One of our nurses, she does a lot of work around different ... Like Our Lady of Guadalupe, they have a very huge celebratory time throughout the year, and our parish nurse is doing a lot during to build that programming up with parishioners from, I already mentioned the Monday meals at one of our other sites, right? Food is nourishing and is a part of that whole person care. So spirituality, if a parishioner, if that is really a part of their life and they bring that forward, we meet them where they are.
(11:24)
So at the triangle neighborhood where that is not a religious entity, it's a low income neighborhood. If a community member were to step into that nurse's office and need to think more about their spiritual care or ask that nurse to pray with them, absolutely. We meet that patient or that person, community member where they're at. In most of our parishes though, it's built into the role. Being at a Catholic parish, it is such a beautiful marriage to be able to bring both that spiritual care and that physical care to that person. And so sometimes they get to team up with other parish staff like the outreach chaplain or other folks where they might take more of that role on, but we don't get to separate things, right? So a person is not just a physical diagnosis, they're a whole person. And so I do think that it marries so nicely in this program as well.
Brian Reardon (12:18):
And you just mentioned that there's no sort of input into your electronic health record. It is sort of autonomous in some respects from SSM, but at the same time, it is part of your outreach. So how do you connect the ... I guess it's a data question, right? You want to know how well the program's doing. Obviously in health care, everything is data driven. So how do you navigate that, that sort of lack of maybe medical record piece with, okay, is this program actually working? Is it improving health outcomes? Is it serving the community in the way it's intended? Yeah.
Megan Timm (12:55):
This is my favorite question, Brian. Okay. I'm glad I asked it. It's my favorite question because so much of community health is data collection, right? When we do a community health needs assessment, we're collecting all sorts of data from the community, whether it be public facing clinical data or it's subjective data or it's focus group or interview information, right? We're collecting data all the time in public health. And so what I love about the Parish Nurse Program being underneath the community health umbrella is that we don't have to just look at clinical. And this program is a really telltale sign of not having to do that. And so because we're not in the EHR, we can't necessarily say, "Well, because of parish nurse, Cynthia, we've had this reduction in ED visits."That's not how it works. We can't live like that. What we do get to do is reach back out to the community and say, "What do you think about this program?
(13:48)
How has it impacted you? Tell me more about what you're looking for in connecting back to health care or navigating health care or tell me about what nurse Cynthia has done." I keep picking on nurse Cynthia. What she's done in your life that's been so impactful. It doesn't have to have to be this giant volume, if you will. We don't need to see the magic in the numbers when we can see the magic in the person and the outcomes for that person subjectively. So there is a lot of belief in the program just from that side of things. It is a part of our community benefit programming and it's helped us connect a lot of pieces back into community for the needs assessment. We can go into that parish and say, "We'd love to have a focus group to learn from you all. What do you think are the biggest health issues right now?" And then that parish nurse will say, let's say fall prevention and isolation are the top two that come out of that conversation at the parish.
(14:40)
Now that parish nurse is boots on the ground to say, "I got you. We're going to have a fall prevention class here and let's talk about what isolation means. Let's talk about how we connect more as a parish if we feel like there's some isolation happening with our older adults." And so they're really boots on the ground to employ what the community is telling us and meeting the needs right away. We don't have to wait. And so when they're built into a community health improvement plan, wow, you've just taken the one person responsible for that and deployed it across four other people to help carry out that work. What a gift.
Brian Reardon (15:12):
So really you're looking subjective because again, a lot of objective data out there, but I like what you said. Subjectively, you can learn and react more quickly and respond to needs. And really at the end of the day, that's what it's about. It's being present and being able to respond to what you're hearing. And how does that inform maybe the broader SSM work within Madison, for example?
Megan Timm (15:35):
I think sometimes folks can start working in silos in a larger community. And you may know some of the people that do the work, but I think having someone like a parish nurse being able to connect the dots when it might feel a little overwhelming is quite a gift. So our parish nurse program, when I talk to our mission leaders, they would only want to grow this program, not take it away by any means. I think now I'm on a podcast and they were really our best kept secret and now I've really exposed that program. But I think if we had it our way, we would be able to expand this where there's an interest, right? At this point, there's always that balance between kind of the operating model and community health in the sense of how do you make sure that we're taking care of both things, taking care of the community and being a business that can thrive and maintain in the community themselves.
(16:27)
So this fits in our Madison model, specifically with the community health needs assessment, of course, and carrying out our improvement plan. I think it's also a lot of our community relations and community connections and partnerships. So I have the privilege of serving our Madison and Dane County space for community health and maintain a lot of our partnerships, but really without the parish nurses, I could only go so far. I'm only one person. And so being able to have parish nurses who like, "Oh yeah, I work with the Catholic Multicultural Center." I'm like, "Great, tell me more about them." And so it's a partnership internally as much as a partnership externally. I think it's helped us connect some of our parishioners, not just to social needs, but the parish itself to resources to better serve, right? That it's not just the parish nurse that knows this, it's the whole staff that knows this information and it just continues to grow and evolve.
(17:18)
At the triangle, we have a board of directors and I have the privilege of serving on that with two of our original parish nurses that still stay on that board and they're very passionate about continuing this program. And with that, we want to continue to see this program grow. What could it do? What are we missing in this new age? 20 years ago, EHRs were kind of new 25 years ago. And so how do we continue to evolve this program as the times evolve is I think our biggest challenge moving forward and how do we keep them connected with community health and that community outreach programming?
Brian Reardon (17:56):
Yeah. And my last question, and then I'll have Josh come in for some final thoughts would be, as you look to grow it, what are some of the challenges in finding those nurse Cynthias? What would you say to listeners who are like, "Hmm, this is a program maybe we want to start or expand in our community." At the end of the day, it's that individual parish nurse who's making the differences, making that connection with folks. So what are some advice you would give to those listening that may be interested in what are some tactics strategies to recruit people who would fit this role?
Megan Timm (18:31):
Oh man, I am not the expert here, but I will share what we've been doing. I could probably learn from lots of people out there on how to do this better. I will say we often start with an assessment with kind of a needs assessment from the parish itself. So from the parishioners or in the triangles case, community members that live there to say, "What is it that you're looking for? What did the last nurse do that you really liked? Or what did the last nurse do that you felt like we could do more of? Help us know what exactly are the skills that maybe we really want moving forward in this current time." We then talk to parish staff. Where's the gap? What have you been missing since the last parish nurse left, right? If there's a gap in kind of that employment, what are you looking for that you don't already have within the staff that would be the magic?
(19:20)
And then that's where we try to recruit. Ultimately, as you already referenced, Brian, it's always best when someone is from the parish. When someone knows the parish, they're already trusted, you've already made it halfway to the finish line when you have someone from the parish interested in the role. A lot of our parish nurse roles, admittedly, are part-time roles. They're not full-time roles. Some of them pick up shifts on our floors to do more med-surg and keep up on their clinical skills while they also serve out in the community. That's a really nice compliment to the role as well. And so it's finding the right person. We have retired nurses that are really interested in these roles because they miss the nursing component, they miss that community connection, but they might not want to go back full-time. So we do often recruit from more of a retirement population.
(20:06)
We have also had recent grads that are getting out of school that are interested in getting their feet wet and thinking about community nursing more so than maybe that med surg nurse. And so I think either kind of fresh nursing or nurses that have seen a lot and they're ready to kind of slow down a little bit and kind of just take care of the parishioners that they know so well.
Brian Reardon (20:28):
Josh, you've been listening to this conversation. Any final thoughts or questions for Megan?
Josh Matejka (20:33):
Yeah, I really do. Megan, the thing that keeps bouncing around my head as I hear you talk about this program and a lot of the work that's being done is this practice of trust building, right? You talked about it earlier in the episode, how some people have this stigma around traditional health care models. They either don't trust clinical facilities or they've had a bad experience before or maybe they're scared, whatever anybody ... We all have different experiences with health care. And a lot of what this does is it kind of breaks down some of those barriers and reestablishes trust with the patient, with the community, with SSM health and traditional health care models. Has your team been able to collect any evidence, either objective data or like testimonials that this type of work is working toward reestablishing trust with maybe communities who traditionally might have a more tenuous relationship with health care?
Megan Timm (21:29):
Yeah. So good. Such a good question, Josh. At the triangle, we have had many of the members and community members that live at the triangle share that because Nurse Carrie was just present, Nurse Carrie didn't fix them, right? That's not the role of the nurses to not necessarily fix in this moment. It's to hold a space and just listening and being able to be present has made a difference. It's not always about getting folks what they think that they need when they walk in the door. It's more so of the gift that comes after the fact. And so I'm actually excited. We are planning another assessment with our triangle neighborhood to hear more about what they're looking for in this role. So I don't have like formal data to say subjectively the parish is better off because of Nurse Cynthia or Nurse Carrie or Nurse Kathy.
(22:22)
It is more so of those anecdotes when I get a handwritten letter from a parishioner that says, thanks so much for this program.
Brian Reardon (22:28):
That's great. Megan, really great perspectives and insights. And again, a program that I think a lot of people are familiar with, but what you just shared with us, I think really opened up some different thoughts of how to approach a parish nurse program. So really appreciate you taking time to share your knowledge with us.
Megan Timm (22:46):
Thanks so much for having me. I could talk about this program all day.
Brian Reardon (22:49):
Well, your enthusiasm really came through. So again, great work you're doing there. And again, that was Megan Timm. She serves as Regional Director for Community Health for SSM in Wisconsin. Appreciate her being with us for this episode. Again, I'm your host, Brian Rudin.This has been another episode of Health Calls, the podcast of the Catholic Health Association of the United States. Our executive producer who you just heard from is Josh Matica. Our scheduling producer is Sarah Marchant. Health Calls is produced here in St. Louis at Once Studios. Of course, you can download Health Calls from the CHA website, and that website is chausa.org. We're also on all of your favorite podcast streaming platforms. And if you do access Health Calls on those platforms, be sure to subscribe, be sure to comment, like it really helps us out. So we'd love hearing back from you. And again, as always, thanks for listening.